Be your authentic self, with Catherine Morgan
From a young age, my guest today had a relationship with money fraught with difficulties.
Catherine Morgan felt her natural relationship with money was out of control, leading to overspending, undersaving and being driven by emotions.
A family medical emergency in later years brought these emotions to the surface again.
In 2016, Catherine decided to use her knowledge and expertise to help women to be better prepared to deal with situations in their life where they need to take back control and be financially resilient.
Catherine is on a mission to encourage women to address those taboo subjects around money and explore the emotional and practical sides of money, rather than just focusing on financial products.
In this conversation, Catherine explains why being your authentic self is one of the most powerful marketing tools Financial Planners have.
Here’s my conversation with Catherine Morgan in series two, episode eight of the Financial Planner Marketing Playbook.
This is the largely unedited transcript of our conversation, so apologies for any typos or weird spellings![00:01:22] So, Catherine Morgan, welcome to this episode of the Financial Planner Marketing Playbook. It’s lovely to have you here. Perhaps for those of us that don’t know your story and know about you, you could start by just telling us a bit of background and, and what it is you do these days. [00:01:35] Catherine: [00:01:35] Yeah, sure. So, yep. So my name’s Catherine. [00:01:38] I am the owner of The Money Panel, which is a business that I started a couple of years ago. Um, and I’ve been in financial services since the, since day. Dot. Really since I was 18. I came out of college, uh, had a place at university to study law and, uh, didn’t really, wasn’t really sure if it was what I wanted to do. [00:01:57] So I decided to take a year out and I were traveling around Australia, which is where some of my family live and just never went back to uni and got into the whole rat race of working at the bank and earning money. And then I bought my first house and then all of a sudden I couldn’t go to uni cause then I was earning money. [00:02:12] And so I spent, um. Just shy of 17 years in the banking sector was all the way through from cashier all the way up to a mortgage advisor investment advisor. This was in the tides days when you were a tide agents, and then I went to work off shore in the Channel Islands. I got a bit bored working in my job and I thought, okay, so I’m going to go and do something different. [00:02:35] Moved everybody out to Jersey, the Channel Islands, and spent four years there leading a team of financial advisers. Just before, um, RDR hits actually. And we got married over there. I had my first child over there, and then we came back to the UK in 2012 as a kind of post RDR. And it was really, at that point I’d kind of known for a long time that something wasn’t quite right in my career, but I couldn’t really put my finger on it and I was always sending good money. [00:03:03] So I was pretty happy. And I had a very emotional connection with money when I was growing up. So I. Basically lifted my overdraft out the whole of my twenties, even though I was working in financial services, what’s telling people what they should be doing with their money. And I wasn’t following it myself because I had a bad relationship with money and I just used money as a tool to try and fill voids in my life that I wasn’t really paying any attention to and gets into kind of the root cause of things. [00:03:32] Um, and it kind of got to the stage in 2012, uh, then had my second son and. I had a lot of health issues myself during that period, and it just caused me to rethink what I wanted to do in my profession. And so I’m probably, so, I’m probably talking a little bit too far through my whistle stops story, [00:03:52] Martin: [00:03:52] There’s a lot to talk about, so that’s fine. That’s absolutely fine. You’ll learn, I think today, mostly as a money coach, um, as well as the financial advisor, but primarily as a money coach. So tell us about the distinction, I guess between those two. What, what prompted that move to coaching rather than solely planning and advising? [00:04:11] Catherine: [00:04:11] Yeah, so, so really good question. And in order to answer that, I’ll just take you back ever so slightly through the transformation that I had in my life, which led me to then actually understand that there was a big difference between financial advice, financial planning, financial coaching, money coaching, all these different. [00:04:29] Kind of strands of, um, helping people to manage money. But what happened for me, just going back ever so slightly before I come onto that answer, was that when I was working at the bank, I was typically working with a lot of retired clients. So even when I came back from Jersey, when we moved back to the UK and I became a financial advisor again, having been a sales manager, because I could have worked part time as a sales manager of two young children. [00:04:54] I was working with a lots of retired clients and what I was seeing and hearing was a lot of clients who actually needed help with just just basic money management. I’d get a lot of widows come into my office and Cypress lost my husband. What do I do? I’ve never dealt with money before. Um, and so that I would have a meeting with these clients. [00:05:12] I come away from these meetings thinking brilliant. They now understand how to manage money. Um, but I wasn’t selling them any products and therefore I wasn’t hitting all of my targets. And I was getting clobbered over the head for my, um, boss at the time who I didn’t get on very well with either, which didn’t have hope because I kept challenging the status quo. [00:05:31] I kept challenging. Why are we not helping clients with this? Why are we just focusing on products? And. In my view, quite complicated products. And so in the end, that led me to just research and discover, well, surely there’s something else out there that can enable you to use my skills and my expertise in a different way. [00:05:51] And I didn’t find anything. I was reading books, I was searching Google, I was just looking for all these different ways and nothing was coming up for me. And then in 2013 when my son was born, my second son. Uh, unfortunately I had a really bad spout of postnatal depression. I had PTSD when he was five weeks old because he was diagnosed with bacterial meningitis and we nearly lost him twice. [00:06:12] And that sent me into a really bad negative spiral of anxiety and, um, and health implications. And so when I went back to work off that period, I wasn’t very well supported through work. So I left, I resigned, I gave my notice, and I had a couple of conversations. Patients with some local IFA practices who will literally fly to my hand off for power planning, support, admin support, back office support. [00:06:35] So I thought, right, I’m going to set myself up as a self employed contractor and just do whatever I can do. And it was at that point that I then discovered. Back to why. So for some random reason, I don’t even know how it came up, but I discovered pull-ups as work and the back to my conference. And I remember sending him an email and say, can I come to your conference? [00:06:56] And he, and the first question that his secretary asked me was, all your financial planner. And I was like. Well, I’m a financial advisor. Is that the same thing as she was like, no, it’s not the same thing. Go away. Come back to us if you’re, if you’re a financial planner. I was like, what is this financial planning all about? [00:07:13] Um, and I found it a bit kind of myth that’s like, why can I not attend this conference? So I went away. I did some research on financial planning. I was working this IFA practice at the time, and I got really suddenly very, very excited about this opportunity to work with clients in a way that wasn’t just about selling products. [00:07:30] And that then opens up my eyes to other communities. And it was at that point that I then discovered the next gen community. And I remember having a conversation with Adam Corona and one of the cofounders and I picked up the phone to them. I said, look. I’m not a financial planner. I want to be a financial planner. [00:07:46] How do I do this? Because if I don’t do this, I’m just going to walk away from the profession. And even as I’m actually sit up for his lecture, it’s next gen conference last year and told my story about how he’d have this conversation with me and what I’ve gone on to achieve since then. But for me, that opens up my whole eyes to this concept of financial planning. [00:08:05] So then I started reading other books. I read, pull out answers with enough. I was then, um. Attracted to Carl Richard’s work and the Behavior Gap and the One Page Financial Plan book. And the more I read and the more I explored, the more I was just fascinated by, by the whole concept of financial planning. [00:08:24] And then I started doing some more research around it and I was coming up with a lot of American financial planners that were doing financial coaching. And then I discovered this whole world of financial coaching and money coaching. And I don’t think there’s a huge difference between financial coaching and money coaching other than financial coaches are, in my view, a financial coach would perhaps be someone who’s in the profession rather than a money coach. [00:08:47] You may have come from a completely different background. But again, the more I learned about financial coaching, the more I thought, yes, this is exactly what I want to do. And that’s how I kind of started into that journey of moving really from a traditional financial advice module into what I do today now, which is combining financial planning and financial coaching. [00:09:11] Martin: [00:09:11] I know lots when lots of financial planners here that some coaching, they almost turn their nose up at it a little bit and maybe think it is a bit America and a bit sensitive and emotional. What was the reality of coaching? You know what? What is it and why? Why do you think financial planners sometimes feel a little bit almost threatened by the some coaching and the skills that come with it? [00:09:31] Catherine: [00:09:31] Yeah. I think that’s a really good point. I think coaching as a whole is very unique because coaching and it’s pure sense, it’s really just about you guiding the client down a particular route or a journey or a path that they want to explore. And your job as a coach is just to help to guide and navigate that. [00:09:50] And by using opening, you know, open questions and there’s different types of coaching techniques, and I think for a lot of financial advisors. We’ve never really been taught how to be a coach. So unless you’ve done a specific coaching qualification or coaching course, then it’s very difficult. And I think the biggest reason that it’s so difficult is because we’re so used to, as financial advisors, particularly been in the profession for a long time, and you being the person that comes up with the solution. [00:10:19] Yeah. And we go into this kind of fact finding scenario where we’re trying to gather this factual information from the customer so that we can then put together a recommendation. Coaching is a very different skill, very different skill to fact finding. And certainly when I went through this, Jenny and myself, I really struggled with being able to answer a question and then stop talking and not say anything. [00:10:41] It was one of the hardest things and still now. I really have to work hard on my ability as a coach and know what situations am I a planner? In what situations am I a coach? And in what situations am I sometimes almost going into a whole different terror of almost like financial therapy where you’re understanding the client’s said, deep rooted belief systems. [00:11:05] Because in reality, behind every single financial situation, there’s a set of beliefs. There’s a set of thoughts. There’s a set of emotions, and for me, I can’t even begin to put together a financial plan if I don’t know what they set of beliefs and behaviors are. Because a lot of what financial planning is, we know that the power of creating a financial plan is to forecast out all these different scenarios and to look at how we can help a client to reach all of those different scenarios that they want to plan for their future. [00:11:36] But if I know, for example, that client has an emotional relationship with money, if I know that maybe they’re an over giver or they’re spontaneous with money. Then that’s going to essentially help me to aid the client in how I can help them with their behavior habits and behavioral biases. [00:11:55] Martin: [00:11:55] I guess very well known for, and it’s only been really the last few years is building your own community, your own tribe. [00:12:02] So what was the light bulb moment for you that brought that about and you thought, okay, I need to have my own community of followers behind me. What, what problems would that happen. [00:12:10] Catherine: [00:12:10] Yeah. A couple of things. I think the first one, they really honest. I just needed to earn some money. I needed to find a way to monetize what I’d spent a good 12 months learning. [00:12:21] So I’d spent a lot of money on courses, reading books while he was mentors. Learning how to build a, build an audience, start attracting your tribe, so to speak. But because I haven’t, I’ve been giving relationship with money. I was doing a lot of it for free, and I essentially wanted to learn how to do it so I could monetize that. [00:12:41] And, and so I thought, well, what is everybody else doing? How online entrepreneurs building their brand, how are they building that audience? How are they attracting the right type of clients to work with? And actually getting really clear on who I wanted to work with was one of the, one of the best first steps I ever took. [00:12:58] Because once I was really clear on who I was trying to attract, it’s a bit like a magnet. Then you know what your language needs to be. You know what their pain points are. You know how to start building that community and attracting those types of types of clients. But I guess initially for me, I needed some money. [00:13:14] I needed to add some money because again, I was . I’ve moved away from the bank. I was contracting, but I wasn’t happy contract, you know, I wasn’t happy with the IFM I was working with. Um, and every single IFA firm I spoke to, it just didn’t click for me. I just thought, you’re still doing the traditional transactional financial advice, and that’s not what I wanted to do. [00:13:34] So I needed to find a way for me to build my own brands and for me to build my own business so I could stop. Charging my worth, um, and, and finding a way to monetize that so that I could look after my own needs as well as everybody else’s. [00:13:50] Martin: [00:13:50] And part of that process for you building your tribe was talking on camera. [00:13:54] It was just like you are now, and we will share a new audio with our audience at the moment. But you and I are talking on camera. You are very good at going on a Facebook live, for example, and just talking. So how, how did you find that confidence to just terrifies most people? It still terrifies me to do it, but how do you find that confidence to face the camera, to talk to an audience of strangers effectively and interact with them that way? [00:14:15] Catherine: [00:14:15] Yeah, it’s a great question. And I would say like putting your face on camera, first of all is it is scary because I did a lot of the ourselves generally. Um, and so I was, when I first started doing Facebook lives, I was petrified. I didn’t know what the tech was. I didn’t know how to do it. I didn’t know. [00:14:36] You know, I used to script everything out and I would try and read it on, transcribe the tools and all sorts of different things. And actually one of the things I’m doing at the moment is editing one of my first courses that I ever recorded, which was an investing course. And when I watch it now, I like a cringe. [00:14:51] I’m not on, my gosh, I’m not clearly reading from a screen reading from a script. And so what I learned was that. That was fine. Like I still attracted my audience. I stayed attracted clients. I still built my audience doing it like that because we have to remember that the content that we’re producing, it’s not about us. [00:15:10] It’s about the content. It’s about the value that you’re giving out to the world. So people don’t care if you’re in your pajamas. People. Hey, if you’re, you know, if you’ve got bags under your eyes right now, I’m saying to myself, looking at myself in the screen, it doesn’t matter if you haven’t got the beautiful backgrounds, because actually being raw and honest and open about real life, it actually attracts more, I think, than you know, than trying to be perfect. [00:15:39] And one of the golden rules that I always follow is it’s about progress, not perfection. Because you’re never going to get it tough. Even now, when I do my Facebook lives, I always think, Oh, if I look back at them, which I very rarely do actually, but if I look back at which one it’s on that I wish I said that differently, or I wish I’d made that a bit shorter. [00:15:57] I wish I had my dad a bit longer. So there’s always lessons in everything that we do, and it’s getting started. It’s that next one simple step that you can take if you’re going out and putting content out into social media, and there’s not many people doing it in the financial services profession, you’re going to stand out anyway. [00:16:15] So I think that’s really important. I think that the likelihood is, is that you’ll attract people that are similar to you. So Martin, you probably got a bunch of people who will follow you because there may be similar to you. Maybe they’ve got the beds right now, [00:16:34] Catherine: [00:16:34] but you know what I mean? I, when I started working with them in social media. I started attracting people that were like me or people who wanted to be more like me or people who had my story and thought, yeah, I can really resonate with that. And so that’s all that matters. At the end of the day, most of the time, people are trying to attract people that are similar to them. [00:16:53] And the reason that is is because you know your journey and you know how you’ve helped yourself, and you just want it in bulk. You know? You want to help the well to do is that key? The same? Right? Most people, when they struggle with that ideal client, they struggle with like, you know, you’ve got to niche down and super niche and all this kind of stuff. [00:17:09] But in reality, every, every time I speak to somebody about that ideal client they just described themselves, [00:17:17] Martin: [00:17:17] it’s a great place to start, [00:17:19] Catherine: [00:17:19] is a great place to start. And, but I think in sense of visibility, there’s a couple of little tips that you can. You can think about if I split lives, like looking at the lens rather than yourself is a really good tip. [00:17:30] So one of the setups I have often with Facebook lives is if I’m going live from my, from my computer, from my Mac, then I’ll normally have something behind the computer screen. That might be a world, it might be my a world or a magic child or a flip chart or something like that. And you can just have a couple of bullet points just behind the lens so that. [00:17:51] If you’re going live and you’re worried about what am I going to say? What if I forget something? Which is often what people worry about is just have something just behind the lens that just is like a gentle prompt for you. So if I was going to do a Facebook live, I would write out my title. I would spend five or 10 minutes just Whiting out three or four bullet points, and that would be it. [00:18:12] And I would just go, no, I’ve, and I would just talk about the content I want him to deliver and then answer people’s questions. And that’s it. It doesn’t have to be perfect. It doesn’t have to be 45 minutes long. Sometimes the shorter content videos can be more powerful than the longer content videos, but that really helps me. [00:18:29] Looking directly at the lens, um, was important. And also imagine you’re just talking to one person. So just imagine that you’re just chatting to your friends or your most recent client that you’ve worked where just imagine you’re just talking directly to that one person. [00:18:45] Martin: [00:18:45] Yeah, it makes, it makes it less, less daunting, doesn’t it, when you on that one to one conversation rather than one to potentially hundreds or thousands. [00:18:51] But you mentioned a moment ago, relatively few financial planners are doing this stuff. There are very few that have a presence on Facebook and Instagram and a few bullet tribe. So. What would you say to people that are listening to this conversation now and thinking, okay, I guess it, I know why I need to build my tribe. [00:19:08] Where would you start if you were in their shoes today? Thinking about what you’ve learned over the last few years doing this, what would be your best starting point [00:19:15] Catherine: [00:19:15] for them? I think there’s two answers to this. The first one is. From a marketing perspective, where’s the best place to start? And the second one is, where are you most comfortable to start? [00:19:27] Because in many ways, um, if, if getting started is holding you back, then just get started on the platform that you’re most familiar with. So if you’re spending more of your time on Facebook, go and start on Facebook. If you’re spending most of your time on LinkedIn, then go and start on LinkedIn. If you’re spending most of your time on Instagram, then go and start on Instagram. [00:19:46] So I wouldn’t try and pick like. All of the social media platforms and try and do it across all of them at the same time. At the start of your journey, I would just pick one of those that you’re most familiar with and just start there. For me, it was Facebook because that’s where I was hanging out in my place for most of the time anyway, and I still buy, go to place. [00:20:06] I always spend much more time on Facebook than I do on any other social media platform. So, so that’s the first thing I would say is to think about where are you most comfortable. And start there. But the second side of this is, well, what’s the most effective way of marketing to your ideal client? Now, that depends on where your clients are hanging out. [00:20:24] Because if your clients are retired clients, for example, where are they hanging out? The possibly not on Instagram, possibly more on LinkedIn and Facebook than they are anywhere else, but they may not be on social. They might not be on any of those social media platforms, in which case podcasting might be a great platform because. [00:20:42] Podcasting is one of the fastest maybe marketing opportunities around at the moment. Like statistically, they reckon that most of your audience will listen to close to a hundred percent of a podcast audio versus 20% of a video on any other platform. So if you think about that, podcasting, you could argue is one of the real opportunities for lots of people to get their voice out there into the world. [00:21:11] Martin: [00:21:11] podcast, and again, another area in financial planning that’s being very underutilized. We can probably count on both hands. You have a number of financial planner podcasts out there in the UK at the moment. You started yours sort of last year. You’re sort of 70 episodes deep already, which is fantastic. [00:21:25] And what would you say to financial planners who are thinking about starting the podcast and what, what are some of the things you’ve learned from that process over the last year [00:21:33] Catherine: [00:21:33] and a bit. Yeah. So, um, yeah, so look, if I put cost January of last year and I got to number three in the investing charts on launch, I didn’t really know what I was doing. [00:21:45] I knew I had to have three episodes in the bag before I launched. Um, and I had some help from some of the financial planning. Community with setting, setting my cost off initially. Um, and now I know a lot more about podcast and one of my best friends actually runs a podcast memberships. So I’ve learned a lot from how over the last sort of six months or so. [00:22:04] But I think with podcasting. It is actually fairly straightforward and quite simple. I think sometimes we podcasting, people think you’ve got to have a whole podcasting studio. You’ve got to have lots of tech, and in reality, the headphones that I’m wearing and the speaker I have in front of me right now cost me less than a hundred pounds. [00:22:22] I’m sitting in an open, quite a big room with three large windows wooden floor, which is not ideal. They say for podcasting. But it hasn’t stopped me. It hasn’t stopped me from growing in my podcast audience to all of that. If I . I do two podcasts episodes a week now, so it’s just getting started and I think consistency is important. [00:22:41] If you’re going to commit to a podcast, commit to doing it on a regular basis, whether that’s once a week, once a fortnight, once a month, whatever that is that you can commit to once a week is the ideal. But what I found for me is that. When I first started my business and started creating content, I would never have considered myself to be a content generator and I would struggle sometimes to think of what I’m actually gonna say. [00:23:05] What am I going to talk about today? Yeah, two years later. Oh my goodness. I cannot produce content fast enough because everything I do. Every film. I watch every Netflix program. I watch every walk around my local village that I do. Something comes out of that, but I can turn into content. And so it actually really helped me to generate more content because I was committed to doing something once a week. [00:23:30] So I had to do something once a week. And the more I started creating content, the more the ideas came, the easier they came with the thicker and faster they came. And so. Fairly quickly. I just went from not really knowing what to talk about, to, Oh my gosh, how can I actually keep up with this level of creativity is going on in my brain right now. [00:23:52] So for anyone who’s struggling with, well, what am I actually going to talk about? Then just get started. Because when you start, you make that first step and then something else happens and you make the second step, and then something else happens and you make the third step, and it just builds this really nice continuum of creativity. [00:24:10] Martin: [00:24:10] That’s, that’s a really, really good point. And we, lots of financial planners who we speak to say to me, you know, where on earth are like, get all the ideas for content from, and what my we’re taught usually is, well yeah, you listened to the radio over breakfast in the morning. There’s always a personal finance story on there. [00:24:23] Something you can talk about. You talk to clients every day, there’s always something they ask you. It’s just, it’s a case of having that sort of attention radar switched on, isn’t it? And looking out for ideas as the day goes through. [00:24:34] Catherine: [00:24:34] Yeah. And one of the things you could start with is just, um, you can do a very simple exercise where, you know, perhaps have a week at work and at the end of the week, just grab a piece of paper and just write down maybe 10 of the top. [00:24:46] Common questions that were asked by your clients that week, and I’m sure you could probably think of that already off the top of your head, 10 common questions that you get asked from clients, like, how much is enough? How much I’ve contributed to my pension? You know, do I, do I continue to put it into cash? [00:25:02] Will do, I invest? You know, all the kind of common questions that you get from clients. You could just pick one of those. And then just put three bullet points underneath that question and just write three tips out. Well, these would be the three things I would think about, or you know, I would start with this, then do this, then do this, and then just create a very simple blog or a Facebook live or a podcast into the. [00:25:30] Around that question. And actually the great thing about that is that you then end up with a whole bank of questions so that as you get those common questions, you can go, Oh, I know the answer to that. Let me just direct you to this video I’ve done, or let me just direct you to this blog that I’ve written. [00:25:43] So it’s a very useful way of directing people into the right. [00:25:47] Martin: [00:25:47] Yeah. That makes life so much easier than having sort of rice out an email response each time where you can say, look, just listen to this podcast episode, or answer your questions. I get excited now. Every time I get an email from a client or a financial planner, every time I’ve got a direct message with a question, I think, yes, that’s a podcast episode. [00:26:01] That’s a video I condition quickly and yeah, once you’re looking out for this stuff, it does make life so much easier, doesn’t it? What about the importance of personal branding? So I knew, for example, you’re always having. Professional photographs taken that if you’ve got that sort of bank of assets, I guess, when it comes to putting yourself and your personality out. [00:26:21] So tell us a bit about that, how you approach that subject. [00:26:24] Catherine: [00:26:24] Yeah, so again, I think we can really overthink the whole personal branding stuff. I think in reality, pastoral branding is about fostering trust. You know, building credibility, showing who you are in your brands and leveraging your flaws. So. One of the things that, I mean, when I first started in my business, I didn’t have professional photographs. [00:26:44] I took a few pictures from my phone. I think, you know, I phones and technology nowadays is so good. You don’t necessarily need a whole. You know, production of photographers flooding you around for a day. It wasn’t actually until summer of last year that I invested in, um, in professional branding photography, which is one of the best decisions I made in my business because I get so many good feedback at so much good feedback about my images and how much they resonate with who I am. [00:27:10] And I think that was a really important part of actually choosing the right photographer that. Could capture my personal branding in my images. That was really important because the last thing you want to do is start building a website, building a blog, building a social media account with just using stock images, because everyone uses the same ones. [00:27:28] They’re the pop, you know, two old people sit on a park bench, you know, and people aren’t gonna aren’t gonna see you in those images. So actually, sometimes just taking your own photographs can be more, um, counterproductive than just using stock images. Um. But I think at the end of the day, pestle branding, for me, it’s just about harboring trust and building credibility and just showing you a little bit of who you are. [00:27:51] So a lot of my personal branding images I had done in my pajamas, because a lot of the time in my Facebook communities, I’m in my pajamas on an evening with a cup of, see, that’s just what I do. And, and then people started saying, Oh, I love the fact that you’re in your pajamas and it’s relaxed, and you’re talking about, you know, the to be subjects of money. [00:28:08] And. And so I included that in my pestle branding images so that if I wanted to do some advertise your marketing and I’ll use those images. And when people come into my world, it’s not a complete disconnect between the images I’ve been using or maybe a Facebook ads campaign, for example, versus when they come into my world. [00:28:25] So it doesn’t have to be over complicated. But just think about. What things would really represent you. Like if you’re a big music fan, then you know how if I took off, taken with you and you could tell us in the backgrounds, you know, if you feel passionate about something in particular, travel for example, then find a way to have some photographs taken with you in a, you know, and so that accessories that demonstrate how what you’re passionate about, because then you’re going to attract people who look at those images and think, Ooh, that’s. [00:28:53] Yeah, that’s, that’s how I feel that, Oh, I agree with those. So I think a lot of the time, like leverage your floors, if you’re not happy with something, just like, just leverage that. Leverage your flaws and, and think about how you’re going to position yourself in the market when you’re going to get noticed. [00:29:07] So, you know, maybe you have a tee shirt with your brands on it and you wear that every time you show up on a Facebook live, for example. You know, it’s thinking about things that can just position you and thinking about what you actually want to be known for in the first place. Mm. [00:29:22] Martin: [00:29:22] And, and I, I guess it goes back to authenticity, doesn’t it? [00:29:24] And being your authentic self, which yeah, it comes across very much from you. And I guess everyone that we follow in this, in this community and in the wider business community, the ones who are most successful are the ones that, yeah. Bring themselves out and share about themselves and not, they’re not complete sort of corporate stooge that they’re real individuals, they’re real genuine people. [00:29:45] Yeah. You and I both follow one entrepreneur who’s got a big community and he does Facebook lives in the bath. You get more real than that. [00:29:55] Catherine: [00:29:55] Yeah. That’s my mentor, um, that you’re talking about that. Um, but yeah, you know, doing something that’s unique, that’s a bit different. And particularly on Facebook lives, there’s a lot of people doing Facebook lives now. [00:30:07] Um, and obviously now with the current, as we recording this, we’re currently in a, you know, a bit of a. A crisis right now, a global crisis. So any way that you can find that just makes you stand out is great. So one of the things that my mentor talks about is you always want to cry white too. I forget the word that he uses now. [00:30:27] It’s like a pattern interrupt. So if you think about it, when you’re scrolling on Facebook, you scrolling and you’re scrolling and scrolling, and then all of a sudden something comes up in your feed and you’re like, Oh, what’s that? And it could be because they’re in the bath or they’re in their pajamas or you know, they’re out walking or they’ve got blaring music on in the background, or they’re doing this across the screen. [00:30:44] They’re waving their hands because I see the honesty of the podcast, why you didn’t the hands across the sphere. It’s that pattern interrupt to get you to stop scrolling, but we will spend hours and hours and hours doing to actually stop and listen to what they have to say. [00:30:58] Martin: [00:30:58] And that that takes a lot of financial planners right out of their comfort zone. [00:31:01] That thought of, of being different. And, and when I speak to lots of financial planners who are scared of sharing any element of their personality, really, because I guess we’ve all been trained, haven’t we? The business is professional and it’s not about us as individuals. It’s about the brand wider brand. [00:31:16] So how do, how do we get past that fear? So it comes back to our earlier question, I guess about confidence, but how do we find that confidence to interrupt the normal way of doing things that normal person. [00:31:26] Catherine: [00:31:26] Yeah. I think, um, from financial planners and flash advisors, I speak to, one of the biggest problems I think of confidence piece is compliance. [00:31:36] A lot of people say, Oh, but I can’t do this cause it’s got to go through compliance. So I can’t write a blog cause got the guys for compliance. And I totally get that. And I do think from a higher level that needs to change, you know, it’s completely ludicrous in my mind. That you cannot go and write a blog or record a video without it going through compliance. [00:31:54] You know, we all know the line between advice and guidance. We all know that it’s important to to let a consumer know. You know that this isn’t a personal recommendation is to just your, you’re telling your story or you’re communicating some value to them. So that’s the first thing I think we need to improve and try and help as many financial advisors as possible too. [00:32:16] To remove that barrier that stands in the way. Because I think actually if compliance was less of a barrier, which sometimes is just in our minds, rather the actual implications of it, but sometimes it is genuinely because people are saying, no, my compliance team won’t let me do it. So I think that’s one thing that we need to focus on as a profession. [00:32:36] And I think the second thing is, is kind of this concept of what is often referred to as imposter syndrome. It’s this fear of what’s what’s going on? What’s that inner critic? What’s that inner voice saying to you that’s telling you that you’re not good enough is telling you that you’re not worthy enough is telling you that while I haven’t had a traumatic childhood, so I haven’t got a good story to tell in all these messages and beliefs that we tell ourselves, and this is. [00:32:59] This is all the stuff that I teach in terms of our beliefs and our behaviors, because behind every financial situation, behind every lack of confidence, behind every procrastination, any change that we want to create in our life, there’s always, it’s driven by a set of beliefs and thoughts and behaviors and emotions. [00:33:17] Now, if you think about it, most of our subconscious belief systems come from our six year old version of ourselves. So think about that. When that little in the critic comes up and says, Oh, you’re not worthy enough. You’re good enough to show up on a Facebook live, then that’s just your inner critic talking. [00:33:35] And the way I always think about this is I think that that inner critic is there to protect us as, as much as it is to challenge us and to stop us from doing things. So we almost want to thank that in a critic to the I thank you for, for keeping me safe, and thank you for, for holding me back in that way. [00:33:51] But actually now that the reason that’s holding me back, it’s not allowing me to attract more people, build my business, or do these things I want to do. So it’s thinking about. How do we get rid of that inner critic? How do we heal that in a child really version of ourselves to give ourselves the confidence that we need to get visible and to to put our necks out there and show up on Facebook lives and things like that. [00:34:14] Or to launch a podcast, for example. And the best way to do that is to think about what, first of all, what is that emotion behind the fear. Because the word fear, there’s a really great acronym for this. So the word fear is a future event appearing real. So it actually hasn’t even happens. So anxiety and fear is all to do with the future. [00:34:34] What could happen? And depression is all about the past. So if you’re fearful of doing something, you’re anxious about doing that because maybe you’re not going to be perfect. And it’s the first time you’ve done a Facebook live. Then actually it hasn’t even happened yet. So do it, and then learn a lesson from what you’ve done, so you’ll do it better next time and think about the consequences of not doing it. [00:34:55] So it’s like that the concept of loss aversion, which some of your audience may have come across, is this behavior bias and loss aversion. What is the pain if you don’t do it? Because we often feel the pain twice as hard as the pleasure. Hmm. That’s if we’re, if we’re walking down the street and we find a 20 pound note on the road and we never look around and nobody else is around, cause obviously it was isolated by it now. [00:35:17] And you put the pickup that 20 pounds and you put it in your back pocket and then maybe you walk to your little local shop and let’s imagine for a moment that it’s over. Be opened and you just see this amazing, I don’t know, a new gadget that you’d be wanting to buy for some time and it’s on sale and it’s 20 pounds, and you walk into the shop like, yes, I’ve just tell this 20 pounds, I’m going to go and use that now. [00:35:38] And you take it over to the council and you hand it to the cashier and they say, wow, that’ll be 20 pounds, please. And you’re feeling really proud and pleased with yourself, and you reach into your pocket and you’re 20 pounds gone, and you think, I’m sure I’ll put it in that pocket. So you’re going to check your other pocket and it’s not there. [00:35:56] And you’re like, Oh, where is it? What made it put it in my bag? So you check your bag, you check your it, and you can’t find it now in that moment, how do you feel? You’re like embarrassed. You’re probably like, Oh goodness, psych. Like I always do this to myself. I always lose things. And then this inner critic comes out and stop criticizing yourself. [00:36:14] But you’ll feel that pain twice as hard, if not more than the pleasure you felt when you found that. Trying to find that in the first place. So think about what are the consequences if you don’t do this? What are the consequences if you stay where you are and you don’t move forward and get visible and get on getting more online? [00:36:34] I mean, goodness, now is the best time to be talking about all of these entrepreneurs. That have been thinking differently in the industry and building online businesses. They’re in a great position now because they’re able to pivot in situations where, you know, potentially we’ve got to close the office, for example. [00:36:51] So it’s thinking of opportunities for you to add value to your clients in a way that nobody else is doing right now. This is a massive opportunity to be learning how to be a financial coach, to be learning how to embed a added value services to your clients. And maybe that’s where you start. You start thinking about how could I maybe do some webinars for my existing clients? [00:37:12] It may not even be about attracting new clients at all. It might just be about adding value to your existing clients. But think about that fear that fear is going to be coming from a place that’s often related to your childhood. So if you didn’t hate him as a child, that you were good enough, if you didn’t have the confidence, if you just had all these messages that you’ve got to work hard to end money. [00:37:32] So the only way to be successful as to what cards. So of course, you know, then you’ll sell a file and you get into overwhelm, and then you’ll find it being an effective. So it’s thinking about you need to hit. So if as a child can come, put your arms around yourself and get what you hit. As a version of yourself. [00:37:54] Really, it’s going back to thinking about your relationship with money, your relationship with yourself, um, and, and accept, I think the inner critic has been that’s protect you, but now your inner critic is not something new and he wants to move forward with that. [00:38:08] Martin: [00:38:08] Catherine is. It’s been fantastic to chat as always. [00:38:10] Thank you for taking the time and coming onto the podcast today. Before I let you go, how can we connect with you? How can we find out more about your community and the work you do? [00:38:19] Catherine: [00:38:19] So come and follow me. I’m pretty much on every social media platform right now. For the money panel. I’m on Facebook, I’m on Twitter. [00:38:27] If you’d like to connect with me on Twitter, if you want to listen to my podcast, my podcast is called in her financial shoes, and we launched an episode every Monday and Friday, or we can come with visit my website, www dot three needs to say that anymore. The money panel.co. Dot. UK. [00:38:43] Martin: [00:38:43] We’ll find it and we’ll make sure we put in our show notes, links to the social media, the website, and the podcast as well so our listeners can find all those nice nasally. [00:38:51] Catherine: [00:38:51] And kind of just say as well. Um, for those of you who haven’t come across the, um, Initiative of Financial Wellbeing, we are talking about financial coaching. We just launched actually this week, the financial coaching stream into the initiative and financial wellbeing. So if this isn’t an area that you’re wanting to learn more about in terms of financial coaching. [00:39:10] Then come and connect with me on Twitter and I can share with you some information about that [00:39:15] Martin: [00:39:15] fantasy. And again, we’ll make sure we put links to the IFW into our, into the show notes too, so our listeners can find out if they’re not aware of it already, they should be by now, but they can find that. So, Catherine, so thank you so much for your time. [00:39:25] That’s fantastic. [00:39:26] Catherine: [00:39:26] Thanks, Martin.